Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Leslie Crandall on November 4, 2011 at 20:09

I would concur with this article with one caveat:

 

The job market is improving for software testers and quality engineers; however, the skills and experience needed to get hired have changed.

 

It is more common, at least where I'm geographically located, to see companies hiring Software Developers in Test, Test Automation Engineers, and Senior QA Engineers with a background in software development.  For junior testers, it's not uncommon to find recent computer science and engineering graduates working as entry-level automation engineers to get their foot in the door to move into development.

 

It's definitely good to feel needed again, but we can't rest on our laurels and assume the job is exactly what it was five years ago.  It's important to keep our skills fresh and be willing to step outside the basic job description of quality assurance engineer.

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Permalink Reply by Martin Cavallero on November 5, 2011 at 19:24

Its really true what you say... the job market grow up for some positions but not for other ones... I have send a couple of CV to some companies along Europe, and its not that easy to get hired as it looks, i know that i dont know automation, but i used to dev. in Java, and i know i can be a good automation tester, but unfortunately all the projects that i have been working (beside that were really top companies, like EA Games), i didn't have the opportunity to work with automation, and that's an unfortunately barrier perhaps, to get a job in Europe...

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Permalink Reply by Leslie Crandall on November 5, 2011 at 19:39

That's exactly it.  The jobs are definitely out there, but the skills needed for these positions have changed so much over the last few years.  It really does drive home the point that, as testers, we need to be constantly looking for ways to keep our skills fresh and be open to learning new technologies on a regular basis.

 

 

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Permalink Reply by Martin Cavallero on November 6, 2011 at 13:10

Yeah, but the thing is... "How a tester will know how to automate, if no one let him try it in a job?"

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Permalink Reply by Anna Baik on November 6, 2011 at 14:45

I can't guess why you didn't get those particular roles, but there are certainly companies out there who will want outstanding *testers* with the ability to learn automation.

 

How have you shown them what you have learnt about automation yourself? Have you tried tutorials for the popular automation tools? Have you committed tests to open source projects? (Check out what Mozilla QA are doing).

 

I don't have enough of a sample set to be confident that this holds across a wider population, but amongst the testers with automation skills that I've been talking to recently, it seems far more common a pattern that they taught themselves, and then showed their boss what they could do with it.

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Permalink Reply by Martin Cavallero on November 6, 2011 at 16:11

I have to the ability to learn whatever is necessary to test... i learned how to use Quality Center just by working with it, as well as other tools... that's how you learn it...  at least one way, im not going to put in my CV that i know automation just to learn in the job, because thats not honest, and i prefer not to get a new job in automation rather tan be not honest...

 

I used to do the asserts test, with JUnit... for example, i know that is unit testing buy automation is not that far from being that... at least what i saw in this years...

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Permalink Reply by Anna Baik on November 6, 2011 at 17:02

I think you're misunderstanding me. What is stopping you from sitting down *tonight* and automating some checks? In fact - here's a link:Selenium Simplified preview. If you've used JUnit in the past, you should breeze through that pretty quickly, if you're interested.

 

I am in NO WAY suggesting that you be dishonest about where you have learned a skill and how you have used it so far.

 

I AM suggesting that potential employers are actually more impressed by people who sit down and teach themselves something - and then say on their CVs "I have taught myself Watir/Selenium/Robot Framework/whatever and this is the level I have reached" - than by people who sit back and wait for their boss to send them on a course.

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Permalink Reply by Martin Cavallero on November 6, 2011 at 17:37

=P okay, im going to read it... =) anyway its not gonna count as WORKING experience... and thats what THEY want... i still think that the best way to learn something, some tool, is when the person WORK with that tool in the REAL work, not studying... believe me, its not the same to study it, than learn it by working in your job with that tool or in this case, "Automation"...

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Permalink Reply by Jeff Lucas on November 6, 2011 at 17:59

Martin - I agree with you on the work experience. Take the example of a bright, knowledgeable person who is -not- currently working as a tester but wants to enter the field. Short of the cert route, there is no way for them to get in the door except the path as an experienced coder. I have heard discussions that there "should be" apprentice programs, but I am not sure they currently exist unless you already have a testing job.

What would happen if a company actually put up a job opening for a "Journeyman Tester" position with the expectation of working as an apprentice for (fill in the blank - 1 year, 2 years, ...). Only after you have completed an apprenticeship would you be given the opportunity to learn automation techniques, which would be expected of all testers to achieve a "senior" position but only after you have shown your proficiency at exploratory techniques (i.e. using your brain), defect reporting, etc.

Permalink Reply by Martin Lewis on November 7, 2011 at 9:30

You may think this is a chicken and egg situation - it appears that you need the work experience to get the job in that area, but how do you get the experience to start with?  As Anna says you can get the experience by working on it in your spare time.  Why not work on an open source project, hook into the development process and write some unit tests for the code - or develop a test automation framework for a project. 

 

You then build up a portfolio of work which you can then demonstrate at interviews.  You may not have x years of paid work experience on automation - but the only difference should be the fact you have not been paid for learning the skills.  It should not stop you being able to demonstrate that you have good automation skills. 

 

Some of the best software people I know are always self-learning and writing tools/apps/websites in new languages and building up profiles of work in their spare time - mainly because they love what they do and the fact they are learning new skills is a bonus.

Permalink Reply by Jeff Lucas on November 5, 2011 at 16:01

Hmmm ... match this with the discussions on the poor quality of testers found in interviews and what you get is a need without the human skills to fill it. I foresee some heavy promotion of the automated scripting suites to fill the void.

I have been reading some interesting books that talk about the misuse of risk analysis to save money at the risk of the common good (like "The Darwin Economy" by Robert H. Frank). You can bet that there is an army of bean counters thinking up new and inventive ways to mitigate the risk of not enough qualified testers that don't include budgets for RST training classes and sponsored weekend testing meets.

Another good read that applies here is "The Tipping Point" by Malcolm Gladwell. In that, he discusses the fact that all "viral" movements are non-linear. Things look flat until the right combination of factors line up to make it take off. I think this and other factors are driving the exploratory / session-based / test-early-and-often movement very near this point (hopefully not wishful thinking!)

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Permalink Reply by Peter Nairn on November 6, 2011 at 11:28

I don't know what others are finding, but I have just finished spending 3 months trying to find one decent tester amongst over 100 CVs. 

 

Am I looking for skills in automation? Particular technology? Domain? Years of experience? No.  I am looking for skills in Testing.  So few of the people applying have any these skills.  If we, as testers, are to be saleable, we have to be good at the skill of testing first, other skills are secondary.

 

Oh, and to those people who say "I have the skill, look at my ISEB/ISQTB certificate", I say that some of the worst answers to testing questions have come from people who have certification.  If you are going to tout yourself as certified, therefore skilled, please make sure you really ARE skilled!

 

 

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